Dr. Benjamin Bikman – ‘Insulin vs. Ketones – The Battle for Brown Fat’

Dr. Benjamin Bikman – ‘Insulin vs. Ketones – The Battle for Brown Fat’

97 thoughts on “Dr. Benjamin Bikman – ‘Insulin vs. Ketones – The Battle for Brown Fat’

  1. So at 28:55, I conclude that when a body becomes type2 diabetic, its actually the bodies way of regulating body fat. Is that correct? It stops creating insulin in order to force itself to run on keytones and strip away bodyfat. And medical intervention only ends up interrupting that process which proves only to exacerbate into a illness.

    Please confirm my understanding that type2 is a corrective action brought on by the body.

  2. 25:12 I once did some calculations based on the mmols on a ketostix for piddling on and worked out that not many ketones in absolute terms ended up in my urine. Was I wrong? how many Kcals actually end up in your urine? Ok Here are the calculations 3 mmol/L = 17.5mg/dL = 175 mg/L = 1gram per 5.7 litres of Urine. 1 gram Ketones = 9 Kcal I guess, so nearly 6 litres of urine (over 1.5 gals) = 9 Kcal Are these calculations right or wrong?

  3. So has a diabetic type 2 I should avoid taking metformin or insulin and just stick to a low carb diet/keto??

  4. DR. Bickman mentions pairing up with a bariatric clinic to test the patients – has that testing/study/ findings been published yet?

  5. – 3 Reasons Why Bulletproof Coffee is a Bad Idea and the dangers of long term on a ketogenic diet .
    Humans did NOT evolve eating (or drinking) such massive amounts of saturated fat.
    There are plenty of nutrients that are healthy when consumed in reasonable amounts, but when people start megadosing them it can cause serious problems.

    One example is fructose… it's "good" when found in nutritious, fibrous whole fruit, but a disaster when consumed in massive amounts from refined sugars (6, 7).

    Another example is linoleic acid (the main Omega-6 fat)… it's healthy when found in whole, nutritious nuts, but a disaster when consumed in massive amounts from veggie oils (8, 9, 10).

    It is entirely possible that saturated fat is the same. Healthy in reasonable amounts, but harmful when we start eating massive, unnaturally large doses that are way outside of evolutionary norms.There are plenty of nutrients that are healthy when consumed in reasonable amounts, but when people start "megadosing" them it can cause serious problems.

    One example is fructose… it's "good" when found in nutritious, fibrous whole fruit, but a disaster when consumed in massive amounts from refined sugars (.

    Another example is linoleic acid (the main Omega-6 fat)… it's healthy when found in whole, nutritious nuts, but a disaster when consumed in massive amounts from veggie oils (8, 9, 10).

    It is entirely possible that saturated fat is the same. Healthy in reasonable amounts, but harmful when we start eating massive, unnaturally large doses that are way outside of evolutionary norms.

    There have been numerous reports of people having massive increases in cholesterol levels when drinking bulletproof coffee. This includes advanced risk factors like ApoB and LDL particle number.

    I personally think it is best to proceed with caution when adopting a drastic dietary change that has never been tested and is way outside of evolutionary norms. It is better to be safe than sorry.

    —Another trend a slow unhealthy liver cannot metabolize and process eating so much fat 7 days a week .
    ..sooner or later your liver it clogs up .

    " ketogenic diet " –In the study, the researchers fed mice a ketogenic diet for several days and expected to find a favorable outcome — perhaps weight loss or another indication of improved health. Instead, they found that the "liver began resisting" insulin" almost immediately and the mice were unable to regulate their blood sugar levels after only "three days" on the diet. (Insulin resistance, meaning that cells in the body don't respond to insulin, is a key characteristic of type 2 diabetes.)😮 Go to this website to read Article on keto diet .


    —Many people follow ketogenic diets for weight loss and other health benefits. A ketogenic diet can be an effective means to lose weight, reverse type 2 diabetes, fatty liver, and other health conditions.

    The problems come, however, when you follow a ketogenic diet for an "extended period" . We already know from the many children who have followed a ketogenic diet to suppress seizures that they are at least 10-fold greater risk for kidney stones, impaired growth, dysbiosis, and metabolic distortions.

    If you follow a ketogenic diet, you MUST address bowel flora, especially with prebiotic fibers. And you would be well advised to not remain ketotic for extended periods else you are at substantial risk for dysbiosis, constipation, diverticular disease, and "colorectal cancer" .

    Great video to watch if you're on a ketogenic diet ;


  6. We've been living off carbs for so long that we think of the emergency energy source (glucose) is the normal source and the normal sources (fat and protein) are the backups.
    Glucose is a quick and dirty way to supply energy and to store up fat in times that fat and protein are scarce

  7. Such a dangerous message. Please study the work of Esselstyn, McDougall, Campbell, Popper, Fuhrman, Goldhamer and other Plant Based doctors. Most of all STUDY THE WORD OF WISDOM! Part of your faith! Wheat is for man, fruit is for man, and he even tells us “It pleases me if you only eat meat in time of famine cold and winter.” Insulin sensitivity can return when you eliminate fat from your diet. The cells that are full of fat release the fat and can now accept glucose. Your message is encouraging and adding to insulin resistance. There is so much more to this than not using your insulin. Are you teaching this to your students at BYU? Dangerous.

  8. I was wondering if on the flip side of this, can this endocrine theory account for why so many people say they feel cold when their insulin is high as a result of a high sugar diet?

  9. DR Bikman is an amazing presenter, objective, articulate. Not the least bit offensive or obnoxious like some. It is a pleasure to watch and listen.

  10. Its kinda of like a catalytic converter in a car's exhaust burning off unused energy on exit of the system. It creates heat and blows it out with no gain to the system in mpg or future energy needs in the system. Except the car can't decide to store it when exhaust system is malfunctioning.

  11. Another question for anyone who knows their stuff:
    What is the adaptive theory for us "wasting" energy by urinating out "parts of fat", ie ketones?
    It seems to me that would be highly selected against from an evolutionary/adaptive point of view.
    Is it just a biochemical necessity to get at the fat energy?

  12. Just wondering: Energi waste of ketones in the breath and in the urin is OK. But what about the enrgi lost to heat? There are no substances in heat? E=mc2. Isnt heat just radiation? You cant loose weight just by heat? Is it that the "exhaust" from the heat-produced is CO2 from the cell and we breath that out as well?

  13. Get people on a keto diet and put them in a cold pool for 30 minutes a day. Do the same with people on a regular diet. Do that for a month and see if anything interesting falls out.

  14. Brilliant talk, chock full of scientific information which will take many views by this totally biomedical- ignorant person to understand and absorb.

  15. Thank you for yet another clear and informative presentation.
    One question that remains is to understand to what point ketones themselves have an effect on the metabolic pathways and cellular inflammation and to what extent they are merely an index of the glucose shortage and the opening of the decarboxylation pathway.

    Do ketones have an anti-inflammatory effect or does the glucose shortage starve intracellular germs and viruses that produce inflammation?

    In so many ways, the valiant band of metabolic explorers you represent remind me of the feats of Livingston and Stanley discovering Africa.

  16. Cool. Like your car, fuel is stored, used for powering the wheels, used to heat the cabin, or dumped to the air via the radiator.

  17. I have been cutting out the carbs to lower my A1C blood sugar level ( up to 5.7 ) …..problem is I don't want to lose anymore weight, as I am 5' 11" and 155 lbs ( I was 165 lbs 2 weeks ago ) ……what exactly should I be eating to maintain weight and still cut out the carbs …..thanks

  18. IMPORTANT QUESTION: The first study when they created hyperinsulenimia in the mouse, how was this accomplished? It showed a picture of a syringe. If this was not done through high glycemic food and rather through injection, then this study and this conclusion, is completely false and misleading. Please provide the link to the study, and explain how hyperinsulinemia was achieved. Scientists like to find data that suits their agenda. I hope that this is not the case in this video.

  19. Thank you.
    Once the weight loss settles …
    I'd like to know how we as individuals can identify when and if we are converting our white fat to brown fat and what are the visual indicators that prove we are doing this (apart from weight loss) – especially once our weight loss subsides. Is it then the addition of exercise is required ??? that will be the trigger for that exchange?

  20. Thank you, Professor Bikman! You have explained the complex metabolic reaction of our bodies to carbohydrates, protein, and fat so clearly that I think even a fairly uninformed person can understand the role of carbohydrates and insulin in fat deposition. I am going to point out your presentation to several type 2 diabetics who think I’m nuts for controlling my type 2 Diabetes strictly through diet—a diet greatly made up of—OH HORRORS—FAT!

  21. Since I am always cold, I wish he explained how we could make more brown fat cells or make those bitches work freaking harder! Why the hell am I always cold?!

  22. I have a question, in ketosis we take most of the energy from the fat and insulin is low to start ketosis…fruits neither spike insulin and most of them ie 80% of fructose get stored in the liver and only 20% goes to muscle in the form of glucose …
    so actually both the criteria of ketosis is matched ..so why cant we take fruits in ketosis please enlighten me

  23. What an amazing presentation. For me, as a non-academic (certainly non-scientific or medical), this made complete sense and was easy to understand – the use of the slides to support / explain the findings was great (ok – I DID have to pause a few of the slides to make sure I understood the graphical correlations).

    I hear some recent concerns about keto diet effects on the kidneys for diabetics. I'm Type 2 – although moderating my diet so comfortably at pre-diabetic levels. Would be keen to hear if there has there been any new information since this presentation that might be relevant to diabetics.

  24. This was a great presentation, thanks for the upload I will watch it over again.

    Why can't I comment on Individual comments?
    I think YouTube is blocking me.

    Maybe I've said something wrong.

  25. Dr Bikman, You said we need insulin to make a fat cell from stem… can we kill (apoptosis) fat cells from staying in ketosis for prolonged periods? in essence starving them of their motivator? Thanks, Mike

  26. good stuff. makes sense. working for me. eat till you are full. low carb. good fat. good, modest protein….easy as pie.

  27. so why does the body spend valuable energy to convert fat ad protein into glucose, if glucose is not important?

  28. very well done Doc Bikman & thank you for talking about function, just another reason why i did not pass microbiology in juco college (twice) five star *****5*****especially at a time when the Wim Hoff method is being used & in your words may be "remarkably related".

  29. Uses green to colour the brown fat icon – WWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY????????????????

    My goals for 2019:
    IF + KETO + Meditation + Qigong + Wim Hoff
    75%FATS/20%PROT/5%CARB = LCHF4Life

    We all die – it’s how we choose to live that matters …

    Science helps inform decision making
    Spirituality lifts your potential to its highest blossoming

    Body is flow
    Mind is flux
    Soul is Choice

    Loving, living and learning

    Thank you Doctor Benjamin

  30. Excellent talk…Good for those on Keto and also for those in Intermittent fasting. A must watch for Diabetics to understand more about what's going on in their bodies.

  31. Although not speaking to some very important mechanisms, this was a very informative lecture.

    Having said that, with time restricted feeding, I eat nothing but green, yellow,and starchy vegetables, the occasional fruit, legumes,, select whole intact grains and seeds yet have fasting insulin levels below “normal” 🤔 range. I also WOF (nature’s true keto) for 2 days, 64 hours, as occasional resets .Curious.

    mTOR, IGF-1, telomeres all good

  32. A very informative talk! However, as a next step would be interesting to understand wider physiological effects of the ketogenetic diet, I.e. cardiovascular health, dementia and cancer. As well, if this type of diet can be used during the whole human life span or only at certain pre-diabetic states. Again, well done!

  33. Ketogenic wasting probably includes perspiration as well as the other two means because my body odor changes during ketosis indicating that sweat may be another way to waste.

  34. So, where does Ketoacidosis come into this, or, by 'high' ketones, do you mean still below this level? Because this sounds dangerously close to the abuse a Type 1 diabetic can wreak on themselves in order to lose weight.

  35. Not sure, I may have already posted. But this KWOE has changed my life. Today, I am down a whopping -99 lbs. BP 118/68. Fasting morning BS 94. This thumbnail was me at 305lbs. Today 206…still a way to go, but I'm so grateful for the truthful science Dr. Bikmen shares with us. LCHF is practically effortless in month #10. My body prefers fat for fuel. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!

  36. I'm confused. Many of us have been told by doctors, hospitals & even the internet, that brown fat is dangerous. R U saying that it's actually beneficial to adults?

  37. Any help would be appreciated, it seems impossible to eat over 1200 calories, I don't mind eating some fat (Bacon, porkroll, scrapple, etc), but other than that, living on meat, sardines, eggs, cream, butter, etc is resulting in reduced caloric intake, my concern is about metabolic rate reduction due to reduced caloric intake.

  38. I'm about 2 weeks into keto diet and I was thinking about the wasting part of the ketone diet as well. Have someone don the math on how many calories one would waste just by pissing and breathing out ketones?

  39. You don't need a ketogenic diet… you need carbs. You just have to fast for like 24 hours and 14 of them you'll be in ketosis.

  40. I'm suggesting this out of ignorance, But isn't gluconeogensis very energetically inefficient?

    Due to the higher concentrations of glucose, glucose-6-p, glucose-1,6-bp and early substrates of glycolysis, wouldn't this make the non-standard state delta G of the steps involved in gluconeogensis very energetically costly requiring a lot of atp?
    So if you were to decrease carbohydrates intake, wouldn't your body need to go through a very energetically inefficient gluconeogensis to restore blood glucose concentrations, using a lot of ATP?
    And also the low glucose effects on hormones (insulin) that would upregulate fat burning enzymes in order to make the atp needed to fuel gluconeogensis?

  41. If anybody wants this in more scientific and historic detail, please watch The Aetiology of Obesity by Dr. Fung. It is a 6-8 hour lecture on the same topic.

  42. I have watched this several times… and this lecture is one of the best lectures that describes the rudimentary mechanisms of the metabolic effect of food. Thank you for al, your heard work.

  43. So, is this an argument in support of exogenous ketones? I have never known of any other specific purpose for ketones besides fueling the brain. Besides ketosis being an indication of fat burn in my effort to lose weight, I was trying to minimize the effects of AD for my mother who was physically very healthy and whose family trend was toward great longevity. I did not want her to be alive, but bedridden for years due to the physical ravages of Alzheimer's. I'll never know exactly how much our efforts helped her but I will say that her AD was evident for well over ten years and yet she never got the debilitating physical effects of it. It was only her cognitive ability that was affected and that was relatively mild.

    Forgive my digression into a hot-button topic for me. My point is that I never understood a purpose for ketones in a weight loss context other than what we generate through the fat burning effects of carbohydrate reduction (fueling the brain in the absence of glucose). The use of exogenous ketones as a fat burning tool seemed to me like using extra smoke to increase the efficiency of a trash fire. This lecture now has me wondering if exogenous ketones would be useful for the conversion of brown fat to white fat and the benefits that would impart.

    He doesn't say to take more ketones to lose weight but I wonder if this information would support it.

  44. Sounds like our bodies need meat and fat, and can eat plants if very necessary and in eating the plants(carbohydrates) we produce more insulin to store fat when we have to resort to more of a plant diet in hard times basically.

  45. wow, this is happening in my body. I feel hotter and my wife feels the heat also. so the ketones she smells is my fat burning. this really helps me understand what is happening.

  46. I've been listening to keto advocates for years and I've never heard about white vs brown fat! Somebody tell Thomas Delauer.

  47. I watched it once. Then sat down and watched it again this time taking NOTES. I needed to participate in order to fully absorb what he was teaching. Great stuff! Information like this helps people like me say no to carbs with a sense of purpose. No insulin thank you. I'll be eating ketones for the win. Go Chiefs!

  48. Great talk! What I found fascinating was the graph from the David Ludwig study starting at 26:30, where the metabolic rate for the low carb high fat diet continues to rise and stay high for 4-6 hours after the meal. Are there any other studies that have built on this study by looking at meal frequency and IF over a longer time span 24-72 hours?

  49. The thing i never se clearly explained is of you can go into ketonegensis if you have insulin resistance or if our are in cetosis can you have insulin resistance at the same time

  50. As a health professional I find myself angry at the ignorance of our current dietary teachings. These have not helped anyone. I am so grateful that teachers such as Dr. Bikman are proving them wrong.

  51. I have been very strictly to pretty much keto for about 18 months. I devour information on keto, health, and weight loss. This is the 1st time I have seen an actual reason why eating so much fat is a good thing when inducing ketosis. I hate blindly following instructions, and love knowing why I should do things. More dietary fat means less insulin. This also explains when I began the keto diet, I was so hot, and minimal exertion would cause me to sweat uncontrollably. I could take a long cold shower, and before I could dry off, I was sweating again. When fat is "burned" it actually is turned into carbon dioxide, and water. If you are more rapidly burning fat than can be expelled as water and carbon dioxide, breathing and whizzing out ketones (converted fat) makes perfect sense. This is the best explanation of the ketogenic diet I have ever seen.

  52. So if you take an exogenous ketone supplement, while still taking in carbs that elevate insulin, do they cancel each other out or does one trump the other?

  53. IS IT NORMAL????

    My 10 y/o son blood results:
    A1C 5,2
    Fasting blood Glucose 72.
    Fasting blood insulin 1,69.

    Is it bad that the insulin is too low??? But looks sufficient because the A1C is 5.2 and the fasting blood sugar is only 72.
    Also he’s not really underweight, but he’s on the lean side.
    Also he gets easily tired 😓 when playing soccer ⚽️.

    Hope to hear from you guys.
    I don’t know who to consult with. Regular doctor don’t understand metabolism.

    Thank you very much.

  54. At 15:50….is that mentioning using placebo's on non-humans? Is that even a placebo? Interesting. Amazing content though. Love the wealth of knowledge from Dr. Ben.

  55. Also I'm curious if there is a ceiling to this behavioral transfer between WAT & BAT and would the ceiling even be a substantial difference in a BMR bump?

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